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	<title>Comments on: Batukaru</title>
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	<description>Climbing the Mountains of Indonesia</description>
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		<title>By: Zac</title>
		<link>http://www.gunungbagging.com/batukaru/comment-page-1/#comment-2780</link>
		<dc:creator>Zac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gunungbagging.com/?p=2138#comment-2780</guid>
		<description>Dan,
The same thing has happened to me at Gunung Batur (which is a straight forward &#039;walk to the top&#039; mountain as I know you are aware of). The head of the Kintamani climbing association started huffing on about how it would take 500,000 rp per person to make a 2 and a half hour climb at best. Of course we would be paying for so called insurance and what not. He then proceeded to pull out an assortment of certified documents and started waving them around in front of our faces. We didn&#039;t budge and we got the price down to 350,000 rp. I know that you are talking about Batukaru; however the same thing happened to us at the mother temple ‘Besakih’ near the base of Gunung Agung. The whole bit about how you must hire an obligatory guide to enter the temple. I saw a German fellow who refused to hire a guide and the locals grabbed his collar. We can always say that this is Indonesia and we must deal with that kind of behavior, but when I went to the Vatican, I wasn&#039;t greeted by thugs demanding payment for entrance and you certainly couldn’t buy beer and cigarettes inside like you can at Besakih. I think that enough time has gone buy and enough international tourism has taken place for some of these local administrators and government leaders can start thing about quality control. Otherwise, they will cross the wrong person and word will get out about their thuggish demeanor. I love Bali but they could definitely be savvier about how they handle tourism or the island will inevitably wind up like Ibiza, Spain.</description>
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<p>Dan,<br />
The same thing has happened to me at Gunung Batur (which is a straight forward &#8216;walk to the top&#8217; mountain as I know you are aware of). The head of the Kintamani climbing association started huffing on about how it would take 500,000 rp per person to make a 2 and a half hour climb at best. Of course we would be paying for so called insurance and what not. He then proceeded to pull out an assortment of certified documents and started waving them around in front of our faces. We didn&#8217;t budge and we got the price down to 350,000 rp. I know that you are talking about Batukaru; however the same thing happened to us at the mother temple ‘Besakih’ near the base of Gunung Agung. The whole bit about how you must hire an obligatory guide to enter the temple. I saw a German fellow who refused to hire a guide and the locals grabbed his collar. We can always say that this is Indonesia and we must deal with that kind of behavior, but when I went to the Vatican, I wasn&#8217;t greeted by thugs demanding payment for entrance and you certainly couldn’t buy beer and cigarettes inside like you can at Besakih. I think that enough time has gone buy and enough international tourism has taken place for some of these local administrators and government leaders can start thing about quality control. Otherwise, they will cross the wrong person and word will get out about their thuggish demeanor. I love Bali but they could definitely be savvier about how they handle tourism or the island will inevitably wind up like Ibiza, Spain.
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.gunungbagging.com/batukaru/comment-page-1/#comment-2782</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gunungbagging.com/?p=2138#comment-2782</guid>
		<description>Yeah I had similar experiences with a local bully at Besakih. Luckily we had a great guide sorted out anyway. They always tell you horror stories about foreigners who never made it back yet they themselves never take a compass or map, let alone any first aid! I often wonder if the reason there are never any signs is because if there were then there would be no need to pay a local two weeks of wages to climb a hill with you! Luckily GPS tracks are making it a lot easier to go and get on with it individually (though obviously it&#039;s a terrible idea to climb alone, not that I haven&#039;t done it a few times myself). 
I suppose many people would agree that unfortunately Bali is a hotspot for local morons trying to make a quick buck from &#039;foreigners&#039;. They are a minority of the population but in places like the temples mentioned it can really create an impression that everyone on the island is out to milk you to fullest extent possible and there is little concept of a fair price for a job well done! It&#039;s the highest price for whatever they can get away with! That&#039;s capitalism though eh? 
The problem with local government making it more official is that it would probably not help much - it would just be even more expensive as another layer of bureaucrats want a cut. My most enjoyable experiences are always in places where there are not daily coachloads of tourists hanging around anyway and you can just find a local willing to give you a hand rather than requiring vast sums of cash and/or permits. As for Batukaru, there is no problem going up the rather more obscure route mentioned above (but finding a guide there could be tricky). My Batur experience, on the other hand, was hassle-free and I get the feeling things are beginning to improve there.</description>
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<p>Yeah I had similar experiences with a local bully at Besakih. Luckily we had a great guide sorted out anyway. They always tell you horror stories about foreigners who never made it back yet they themselves never take a compass or map, let alone any first aid! I often wonder if the reason there are never any signs is because if there were then there would be no need to pay a local two weeks of wages to climb a hill with you! Luckily GPS tracks are making it a lot easier to go and get on with it individually (though obviously it&#8217;s a terrible idea to climb alone, not that I haven&#8217;t done it a few times myself).<br />
I suppose many people would agree that unfortunately Bali is a hotspot for local morons trying to make a quick buck from &#8216;foreigners&#8217;. They are a minority of the population but in places like the temples mentioned it can really create an impression that everyone on the island is out to milk you to fullest extent possible and there is little concept of a fair price for a job well done! It&#8217;s the highest price for whatever they can get away with! That&#8217;s capitalism though eh?<br />
The problem with local government making it more official is that it would probably not help much &#8211; it would just be even more expensive as another layer of bureaucrats want a cut. My most enjoyable experiences are always in places where there are not daily coachloads of tourists hanging around anyway and you can just find a local willing to give you a hand rather than requiring vast sums of cash and/or permits. As for Batukaru, there is no problem going up the rather more obscure route mentioned above (but finding a guide there could be tricky). My Batur experience, on the other hand, was hassle-free and I get the feeling things are beginning to improve there.
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.gunungbagging.com/batukaru/comment-page-1/#comment-2470</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Oct 2010 13:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gunungbagging.com/?p=2138#comment-2470</guid>
		<description>Climbed Batukaru on Sunday afternoon, camped at the top and descended Monday morning. Some amazing dawn views and enjoyable forest hiking - didn&#039;t really feel like Bali as we didn&#039;t meet any other hikers and it was very wild in places.
Anyway, whilst the hike was very good, dealing with the people at Batukaru temple was very bad indeed. I was climbing with a friend who has lived in Indonesia for many years and has already been up Batukaru 6 times and knows the trail from Batukaru temple incredibly well. He needed to leave his motorbike at the temple so he spoke at the small office at the temple and was happy to pay a feee for leaving his bike there overnight. Of course, they first starting telling us we must take a local guide (at a ridiculous price), that the weather was not good enough to climb in (a little bit of rain) and that we need permits and permission from village chiefs and local police etc etc etc. This is, of course, simply a way to try to get money out of us for as many of them as possible. After 90 minutes of &#039;negotiating&#039; my friend had still gotten nowhere and were running out of time (I having flown in from Jakarta that very morning in order to specifically climb this mountain!). I was expecting to have to delay the hike until the following day and try to find a different approach with more reasonable local attitudes but my companion said that we would do it anyway (we were all ready, with tent, food, GPS etc etc). So, the farce began - we made the obligatory &#039;donation&#039; to the people that &#039;hang around&#039; at the temple and put on the sarongs that are mandatory for entering the temple area. We then descended down to the river where the trail to the summit begins, took off the sarongs and put them in our bags, and set off up the mountain.
It was a great hike and the following morning we descended via a different route to near Jatiluwih - a much better route for avoiding the nasty mercenaries at the Batukaru temple.
I later asked my friend what had happened the following day when he returned for his bike. Well, it turns out that two brand new nails had been put through his motorbike tyres and they were completely flat. He then had to walk for several kilometres to get his bike fixed - I imagine it wasn&#039;t cheap either.
So, a word of warning, do not climb this mountain from Batukaru temple as the people there are abhorrent. I will be writing an update shortly with details of the alternative and much more peaceful route.
It is a real shame when things like this happen - and it casts a very dark shadow over some of these bullies who seem unwilling to be reasonable with &#039;foreigners&#039; and would appear to be solely motivated by whatever money they can cadge from visitors to the temple.</description>
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<p>Climbed Batukaru on Sunday afternoon, camped at the top and descended Monday morning. Some amazing dawn views and enjoyable forest hiking &#8211; didn&#8217;t really feel like Bali as we didn&#8217;t meet any other hikers and it was very wild in places.<br />
Anyway, whilst the hike was very good, dealing with the people at Batukaru temple was very bad indeed. I was climbing with a friend who has lived in Indonesia for many years and has already been up Batukaru 6 times and knows the trail from Batukaru temple incredibly well. He needed to leave his motorbike at the temple so he spoke at the small office at the temple and was happy to pay a feee for leaving his bike there overnight. Of course, they first starting telling us we must take a local guide (at a ridiculous price), that the weather was not good enough to climb in (a little bit of rain) and that we need permits and permission from village chiefs and local police etc etc etc. This is, of course, simply a way to try to get money out of us for as many of them as possible. After 90 minutes of &#8216;negotiating&#8217; my friend had still gotten nowhere and were running out of time (I having flown in from Jakarta that very morning in order to specifically climb this mountain!). I was expecting to have to delay the hike until the following day and try to find a different approach with more reasonable local attitudes but my companion said that we would do it anyway (we were all ready, with tent, food, GPS etc etc). So, the farce began &#8211; we made the obligatory &#8216;donation&#8217; to the people that &#8216;hang around&#8217; at the temple and put on the sarongs that are mandatory for entering the temple area. We then descended down to the river where the trail to the summit begins, took off the sarongs and put them in our bags, and set off up the mountain.<br />
It was a great hike and the following morning we descended via a different route to near Jatiluwih &#8211; a much better route for avoiding the nasty mercenaries at the Batukaru temple.<br />
I later asked my friend what had happened the following day when he returned for his bike. Well, it turns out that two brand new nails had been put through his motorbike tyres and they were completely flat. He then had to walk for several kilometres to get his bike fixed &#8211; I imagine it wasn&#8217;t cheap either.<br />
So, a word of warning, do not climb this mountain from Batukaru temple as the people there are abhorrent. I will be writing an update shortly with details of the alternative and much more peaceful route.<br />
It is a real shame when things like this happen &#8211; and it casts a very dark shadow over some of these bullies who seem unwilling to be reasonable with &#8216;foreigners&#8217; and would appear to be solely motivated by whatever money they can cadge from visitors to the temple.
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		<title>By: jeff champion</title>
		<link>http://www.gunungbagging.com/batukaru/comment-page-1/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff champion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 07:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gunungbagging.com/?p=2138#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Just had my first look at your website and it&#039;s great. I live (retired) in Bedugul, Bali right next to lake Beratan. I&#039;ve already climbed several peeks over 1000m including Naga Loka and Catu. Batukaru is on my &quot;next to do&quot; list, but as yet haven&#039;t found anyone who knows the routes. I fancy starting for Batukaru temple and finishing in Tambilingen. Probably two days. If you&#039;ve heard of any good guides, I&#039;d love to hear from you. Regards  Jeff</description>
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<p>Just had my first look at your website and it&#8217;s great. I live (retired) in Bedugul, Bali right next to lake Beratan. I&#8217;ve already climbed several peeks over 1000m including Naga Loka and Catu. Batukaru is on my &#8220;next to do&#8221; list, but as yet haven&#8217;t found anyone who knows the routes. I fancy starting for Batukaru temple and finishing in Tambilingen. Probably two days. If you&#8217;ve heard of any good guides, I&#8217;d love to hear from you. Regards  Jeff
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